Interpersonal Autoandrophilia: Socially Being a Man

how autoandrophilic people socially summon their inner man

Across a wide variety of societies and cultures, women and men are seen and treated differently. Depending on whether someone is seen as female or male, they generally face expectations to behave and express themselves accordingly “as men” or “as women”.

As a result, autoandrophilic people often want to occupy the social role associated with males. This social aspect of autoandrophilia—interpersonal autoandrophilia—is a sexual interest in being treated as a man.

Interpersonal AAP might entail passing as a man, attracting women as a man, or being accepted by other men as one of them. In a broad sense, it’s about being seen and treated by others as a man.

This social aspect of autoandrophilia can also shift partner preferences toward feminine or androphilic partners because those traits help an autoandrophilic person feel masculine in contrast.

Socially Being a Man

For autoandrophilic people, being seen as a man by others has social and emotional significance. Even without passing, just embodying a man’s social role can be gratifying.

The first few times that Lou Sullivan passed as a boy, he became absolutely ecstatic. While waiting to checkout at a grocery store, an older woman referred to Sullivan as “him”, and he “skyrocketed to Cloud 9”[i]. A week later, someone couldn’t tell if he was a boy or girl. Once again, he “skyrocketed to heaven”[ii].

He also fantasized about picking up gay men while passing as a guy. While thinking about this, he wrote in his diary, “I’m getting the hots to get back into some serious passing”[iii].

When autoandrophilic people deeply desire to pass as men and still get perceived as women despite their best efforts, it stings. One transmasc in this situation reported that “each failure cuts into me anew”[iv].

Even without passing, however, being in a man’s social role can be gratifying for autoandrophilic people.

When Sullivan was still living as a woman, he worked with his guy friends to fix up a car, which reminded him of “playing boys” as a kid. He got a lot of pleasure from “working with the guys as a guy”, even though his friends didn’t necessarily see him as a man at the time[v].

Elsa B. fantasized about being the father of a family and caring for his wife and children[vi]. He approximated this fantasy by living with a woman who took care of the household while he played the role of breadwinner.

One transmasc’s favorite fantasy was about male bonding through a sort of circle jerk. The fantasy began with talking to a guy about their mutual turn-ons. Then the conversation would progress to watching porn, and he’d float the idea of masturbating themselves, together. Once it got to that point, “He would take out his dick and I would take out my dildo and we would give them a working over”[vii].

Autoandrophilic Meta-Attraction

Autoandrophilic people are likely to see femininity in their sexual partners as a bonus. The more feminine their partners are, the easier it is to feel masculine in comparison. The reverse is also true: the more masculine their partners are, the harder it can be to feel masculine in contrast.

This shift in partner preferences is the result of meta-attraction: increased attraction to others based on what their traits imply about you.

Autoandrophilic meta-attraction increases attraction to others whose traits help an autoandrophilic person feel masculine by comparison. For autoandrophilic meta-attraction, other people’s gendered traits and sexual orientation are the most relevant traits to consider. The more androphilic and feminine they are, the more potential there is to feel like a man in relation to them.

As a result, autoandrophilic meta-attraction can increase sexual interest in feminine straight women, feminine men, and gay men. Straight women and gay men are attracted to men, so being with them signals to an autoandrophilic person that they’re a man, and femininity in sexual partners makes it easier to feel masculine in contrast.

Meta-Gynephilia: Attraction to Being a Man with a Woman

Over fifty years ago, a doctor writing about an FTM patient noted that his “erotic play with girls…was to demonstrate that [he] was a boy…not because [he] felt gratification in fondling and kissing”[viii].

Likewise, Lou Sullivan’s manual for FTMs quotes a transmasc who said, “I like to imagine what it would be like to have a penis like a guy and have sex with a girl’’[ix].

This attraction to being a man with a woman is meta-gynephilia. It is more about being a guy with a girl than it is a direct attraction to the female form. The more feminine, straight, and small a woman is, the easier it is to feel like a man in relation to her.

In Sullivan’s diaries, he sometimes contemplated hooking up with women, but it always hinged upon him being a man in relation to them. He wrote about a particularly petite woman more than once; her smallness made him feel big, which led him to think that he could be her boyfriend[x].

A few years later, Sullivan still hadn’t picked up a woman. When he thought about doing so, he had no idea how he would do it as a woman, but he felt he could pursue a woman as a man[xi]. After becoming a transsexual man, he reported that women started to look better to him because he didn’t have to be a woman anymore[xii].

However, it doesn’t seem like he translated these fleeting thoughts into action. Eight years into his transition, he had hooked up with a transsexual woman once, but he hadn’t otherwise been with women[xiii].

Mr. G acted on his meta-gynephilia often, and his pursuit of women obviously stemmed from his attraction to being a man. His logic was clear as can be. He asked, “How could I have a penis and not want a female?”[xiv]

While wearing his Levi’s jeans, his sexual fantasies always involved a woman[xv]. The women he preferred were feminine, virginal, young, and pretty with long hair[xvi]. They also had to be strictly heterosexual[xvii].

He was appalled by the idea that having sex with women made him a homosexual[xviii]. Although male homosexuality was acceptable to him, female homosexuality was absolutely abhorrent[xix].

After seducing women, Mr. G felt powerful like a man. During sex with women, he always took men’s sexual positions and took pride in his ability to satisfy women better than any man could[xx]. And when he orgasmed with them, he felt his phantom penis ejaculate[xxi].

Ambiandrophilia and Meta-Attraction to Feminine Men

In general, a sexual partner’s femininity helps an autoandrophilic person feel more masculine by comparison.

As a result, autoandrophilic meta-attraction enhances sexual interest in feminine men. With a feminine man as a sexual partner, an autoandrophilic person who is attracted to men can satisfy both sides of their attraction at the same time.

Autoandrophilic people who are simultaneously attracted to men and to being a man are ambiandrophilic: their androphilia is bidirectional, pointing both internally and externally at the same time.

It’s common for ambiandrophilic people to have pondered the classic “do/be” question: “do I want to do him or be him?”.

For ambiandrophilic people, a feminine male body appeals to their alloandrophilia. If their male partner is gay, bi, or has mental or physical traits that seem feminine, these contribute to autoandrophilic meta-attraction.

Men who are sensitive, submissive, vulnerable, gentle, or empathetic can be especially attractive in this way. The particular desirable traits vary from person to person, but any mental or behavioral traits seen as feminine can contribute to autoandrophilic meta-attraction.

This interest in feminine men shows up in case reports of androphilic trans men. For instance, one wanted a “loving sensitive man whose femininity would complement the maleness in me”[xxii]. Another wanted “slender, feminine-appearing men”[xxiii]. Blanchard himself highlighted a case in which a trans man was especially into “gentler, nonmacho gay men” that enabled him to feel masculine in contrast[xxiv].

This attraction to feminine men can be turned inward too. One transmasc admitted, “One perversity, perhaps, is that I like the idea of looking like a rather feminine male”[xxv].

Attraction to Gay Men

Many autoandrophilic people love gay men and long to be in a gay relationship of their own. Among autoandrophilic trans men, the partner preference for gay men is especially common.

On one level, it just makes sense. They are erotically interested in men and in being one, so it’s no surprise they’re attracted to gay men.

There’s more to it than that though. There is something special about gay relationships in particular that appeal to them.

One aspect is the even playing field—in a gay relationship, it’s one man with another. With gay men, there’s less of a need to navigate the power differences that disadvantage females in heterosexual relationships. For example, a trans man who’d recently had his first gay sex reported that “it felt like sex between equals for once” and that it “made all other relationships pale by comparison”[xxvi].

Autoandrophilic meta-attraction also contributes to this infatuation with gay men. Gay men are specifically into men, which implies that the person pairing up with them is a man too.

The enthusiasm for being a gay man and having gay male sex among autoandrophilic people is so common that Blanchard uses the term “autohomoerotic gender dysphoria” to describe the gender dysphoria of FTMs who want to participate in gay male sex[xxvii]. When seen as a manifestation of autoandrophilia, however, this “autohomoerotic” dysphoria is simply the interpersonal aspect of autoandrophilic gender dysphoria. Regardless of which conception is best, however, there is obviously a subset of trans men who are sexually attracted to being gay men.

Lou Sullivan was one of them. He wrote in his diary, “As long as I remember I’ve had to think of myself as a guy making love to another guy to have an orgasm”[xxviii].

Sullivan’s diaries were chock-full of references to gay men. From a young age, he longed to be one, greatly admired them, and wanted to be a part of their world. He read their literature, joined their organizations, and pursued them sexually. He saw himself as a gay man too.

When Sullivan explained it, the reason for his attraction to gay men seemed obvious:

What made gay men more sexually attractive than straight men? Simply the fact that they were aroused by other men. All kinds of gay men appeal(ed) to me romantically and sexually—old, young, leather and muscle types, lithe femmy queens, clean-cut men in business suits. If they loved men, I loved them![xxix]

For Sullivan, gay men’s attraction to men was the defining characteristic that made them attractive to him. Their gayness increased his attraction because it signified that he was a gay man himself. If men weren’t bisexual at the very least, he wasn’t interested in them.

A different autoandrophilic person reported that he was specifically attracted to depictions of gay male sex, fantasized about participating in it, and sought a submissive man so that he could play the masculine role. He wanted to exist socially as a gay man so that he could take part in their social world, and he also made sure to specify that he was “not a fag hag”[xxx]. (A “fag hag” is a straight woman who enjoys or prefers the company of gay men).

When a straight man pursues an autoandrophilic FTM, his straightness might be a deal-breaker: “what’s missing is how they’re relating to you”, a gay trans man explained[xxxi].

This is why relationships between autoandrophilic FTMs and conventionally heterosexual males are often fundamentally incompatible and why gay men are far more appealing. Gay men are attracted to men, so they’re intrinsically motivated to see their partners as men. Being with a gay man is an ideal outcome for many autoandrophilic people because there’s less second-guessing about whether or not their partner actually sees them as a man.

Unsurprisingly, a study of trans men found that androphilic-leaning trans men were significantly more attracted to gay men than they were to straight men, straight women, or lesbians[xxxii].

Changes to Sexual Orientation After FTM Transition

Trans men often report a change in sexual orientation after transitioning.

After becoming more confident in their masculinized body, it’s common for autoandrophilic trans men to become comfortable with a wider array of sexual partners and modes of sexual interaction. Some even become comfortable with vaginal penetration[xxxiii].

A study of approximately 500 trans men found that 40% of them reported shifts to their sexual partner preferences after transitioning[xxxiv]. Most of those preference shifts were toward men.

Similarly, a clinical study on orientation changes found that after two years of gender transition, trans men were more likely to have a male partner and fantasize about men than before transitioning. This rise in attraction to men and drop in attraction to women happened at the same time that many of them started to revert to a female identity in their fantasies[xxxv], which suggests that meta-attraction influenced these changes. I explore this study in greater detail in Chapter 5.3.

In an influential book on female sexual fluidity[xxxvi], both of the transmasculine people it featured said that after transitioning, they were more attracted to men than before, and it was gay men in particular who caught their eye. One said he was unusually attracted to gay men[xxxvii], and the other started to notice all the attractive gay men in his neighborhood after going on testosterone[xxxviii].

Homoerotic Media

Many autoandrophilic people first realize their attraction to being a gay man through media depicting romantic love between men. This media is often categorized as mlm (“male loves male”).

A popular form of mlm is “slash fanfiction”, also known as “m/m slash” or simply “slash”. Slash fanfiction depicts male characters from popular media franchises in romantic or erotic situations.

Slash gained momentum as a stand-alone genre when female fans of the original Star Trek began to write romantic and erotic stories about Kirk and Spock[xxxix]. Over time, slash fanfiction spread to fans of other media franchises.

Today, media franchises like Harry Potter, Supernatural, Naruto, and Twilight are popular in slash fanfiction. Millions of these stories can be found on fanfiction.net[xl].

Another popular type of homoerotic media is “BL”, which is short for “boy’s love”. BL originated in Japan and commonly comes in the form of manga, anime, and books.

One popular subgenre of BL is yaoi, which centers young, beautiful male characters called bishōnen (“beautiful boy”). They tend to have slender bodies, stylish hair, and somewhat feminine faces. As a result, some female fans of yaoi who feel themselves to be gay bishōnen seek relationships with others like them[xli].

Female fans of yaoi are sometimes called fujoshi (“rotten girl”). Originally used as an insult, many yaoi fans have since reclaimed it as an identity.

It’s likely that many fans of yaoi are autoandrophilic. Yaoi author Shihomi Sakakibara has argued that the genre is specifically for females who, like him, feel themselves to be men but also love men[xlii]. Accordingly, some yaoi fans consider themselves to be a sexual minority[xliii].

The way that one BL fan described sex with their husband also suggested the presence of autoandrophilia:

Until a few years ago, I could not really recognize sex with my husband as a male-female act. In my mind, I transformed what I was doing to the male-male act in the BL fictions.[xliv]

Since many autoandrophilic people want to be gay men and find the idea of having gay male sex arousing, it’s no surprise that the idealized gay male relationships found in slash fanfiction and yaoi are especially appealing to them.

From One Kind of Gay to Another

When an autoandrophilic trans man comes out as gay, they might be “coming out for a third time”[xlv]. First, they identify as a lesbian or bisexual woman. Then, after transitioning, as a trans man. Not long after, they realize they’re mostly into men and identify as a gay man.

Prior to transition, many autoandrophilic people prefer to have sex with women. Many go through a period of identifying as lesbians[xlvi]. Some even suppress their attraction to men before transitioning because they know that men are attracted to women. One explained his thinking like this:

It was only as I began to live as a man that I realized my attractions toward other men. Prior to that, I firmly denied any trace of attraction to anything but women. I think I feared that attractions to men would make me less of a man.[xlvii]

They can find men attractive; they just don’t like being put into the role of girl or woman[xlviii].

After transitioning, one trans guy finally realized why he was dissatisfied with his pre-transition relationship with a man: “It wasn’t about not wanting to be with a guy; it was about not wanting to be the girl”[xlix].

Before transitioning, being with a woman offers the best odds of having a masculine sex role in sexual exchanges, so many autoandrophilic people choose to date women or even conclude that they’re a lesbian before undergoing gender transition.

Even while still dating women, some trans men inwardly identify as gay men. For instance, one said, "I’ve always identified as a fag even when I dated women"[l], and another described his pre-transition self as “a faggot and a dyke trying to share the same body”[li].

After transitioning, trans men may come out a second time—this time as transgender men.

This new personal and social identity changes their relationship to themselves and others, which can open them up to the possibility of being with men. And if they masculinize their body with testosterone (or otherwise become more secure in their body and identity), sex with men no longer threatens their identity in the way it used to.

Now that they look like men, these trans men attract men who are into men, so they don’t have to worry as much that men are attracted to them as women. And if they’re lucky enough to draw the interest of gay men, it’s a clear sign of passing that can strongly validate their sense of manhood[lii].

At this point, they may realize they’re far more attracted to men than they ever were toward women. Or that they’re completely into men and not actually into women at all.

If so, they come out for a third time—this time, as gay men.

In Sum

• Interpersonal autoandrophilia is a sexual interest in socially being a man. This subtype of autoandrophilia makes it more likely that an autoandrophilic person will want to be seen and treated as a man by others.

• Autoandrophilic meta-attraction shifts a person’s sexual partner preferences toward people whose traits are gender-affirming. This meta-attraction increases attraction to feminine men and gay men and can also create attraction to enacting a man’s sexual role with a woman (meta-gynephilia).

• It’s particularly common for autoandrophilic people to prefer gay men as sexual partners. With a gay man, they can be sure that their partners are attracted to them as men and also be intrinsically attracted to their partner’s bodies. This dynamic may explain why it’s common for autoandrophilic people to enjoy erotic media that focuses on male-male romance, such as slash fanfiction or other mlm.

• It’s somewhat common for autoandrophilic trans men to ultimately come out multiple times. Before transition, they are likely to come out as bisexual or lesbian. After transition, they may come out again, this time as transgender. After settling into their masculine identity, they may realize they’re mostly attracted to men and decide to come out as gay trans men.

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[i] Lanei M. Rodemeyer, Lou Sullivan Diaries (1970-1980) and Theories of Sexual Embodiment, Crossroads of Knowledge (New York: Springer, 2018), 22.

[ii] Rodemeyer, 23.

[iii] Rodemeyer, 166.

[iv] Robert J. Stoller, “Transvestism in Women,” Archives of Sexual Behavior 11, no. 2 (April 1982): 104, https://doi.org/10.1007/BF01541978.

[v] Rodemeyer, Lou Sullivan Diaries, 3.

[vi] Wilhelm Stekel, Sexual Aberrations: The Phenomena of Fetishism in Relation to Sex, vol. 2 (London: John Lane, 1930), 284,  https://archive.org/details/b29817043_0002.

[vii] Louis G. Sullivan, Information for the Female-to-Male Crossdresser and Transsexual, 2nd ed. (San Francisco: self-pub., 1985), 10, https://www.digitaltransgenderarchive.net/files/g158bh442.

[viii] J. H. Vogt, “Five Cases of Transsexualism in Females,” Acta Psychiatrica Scandinavica 44, no. 1 (March 1968): 73, https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1600-0447.1968.tb07636.x.

[ix] Sullivan, Female-to-Male Crossdresser and Transsexual, 8.

[x] Rodemeyer, Lou Sullivan Diaries, 106.

[xi] Rodemeyer, 163.

[xii] Rodemeyer, 178.

[xiii] Lou Sullivan, letter to Ray Blanchard, November 1, 1987,  https://www.digitaltransgenderarchive.net/files/wh246s217.  

[xiv] Robert J. Stoller, Splitting: A Case of Female Masculinity, The International Psycho-Analytical Library, no. 97 (London: Hogarth Press, 1974), 292.

[xv] Stoller, “Transvestism in Women,” 106.

[xvi] Stoller, 109.

[xvii] Stoller, Splitting, 276.

[xviii] Stoller, 285.

[xix] Stoller, 291.

[xx] Stoller, 277.

[xxi] Stoller, 14.

[xxii] Robert Dickey and Judith Stephens, “Female-to-Male Transsexualism, Heterosexual Type: Two Cases,” Archives of Sexual Behavior 24, no. 4 (August 1995): 441, https://doi.org/10.1007/BF01541857.

[xxiii] Dickey and Stephens, 442.

[xxiv] Ray Blanchard, Leonard H. Clemmensen, and Betty W. Steiner, “Heterosexual and Homosexual Gender Dysphoria,” Archives of Sexual Behavior 16, no. 2 (April 1987): 143, https://doi.org/10.1007/BF01542067.

[xxv] Stoller, “Transvestism in Women,” 104.

[xxvi] Walter Bockting, Autumn Benner, and Eli Coleman, “Gay and Bisexual Identity Development Among Female-to-Male Transsexuals in North America: Emergence of a Transgender Sexuality,” Archives of Sexual Behavior 38, no. 5 (October 2009): 696, https://doi.org/10.1007/s10508-009-9489-3.

[xxvii] J. Michael Bailey and Ray Blanchard, “Gender Dysphoria is Not One Thing,” 4thWaveNow (blog), December 7, 2017, https://4thwavenow.com/2017/12/07/gender-dysphoria-is-not-one-thing/.

[xxviii] Rodemeyer, Lou Sullivan Diaries, 22.

[xxix] Sullivan, letter to Ray Blanchard.

[xxx] Dorothy Clare and Bryan Tully, “Transhomosexuality, or the Dissociation of Sexual Orientation and Sex Object Choice,” Archives of Sexual Behavior 18, no. 6 (December 1989): 533, https://doi.org/10.1007/BF01541679.

[xxxi] David Schleifer, “Make Me Feel Mighty Real: Gay Female-to-Male Transgenderists Negotiating Sex, Gender, and Sexuality,” Sexualities 9, no. 1 (February 2006): 67–68, https://doi.org/10.1177/1363460706058397.

[xxxii] Meredith L. Chivers and J. Michael Bailey, “Sexual Orientation of Female-to-Male Transsexuals: A Comparison of Homosexual and Nonhomosexual Types,” Archives of Sexual Behavior 29, no. 3 (June 2000): 269, https://doi.org/10.1023/A:1001915530479.

[xxxiii] Bockting, Benner, and Coleman, “Gay and Bisexual Identity Development,” 694.

[xxxiv] S. Colton Meier et al., “Measures of Clinical Health among Female-to-Male Transgender Persons as a Function of Sexual Orientation,” Archives of Sexual Behavior 42, no. 3 (April 2013): 470, https://doi.org/10.1007/s10508-012-0052-2.

[xxxv] J. Defreyne et al., “Sexual Orientation in Transgender Individuals: Results from the Longitudinal ENIGI Study,” International Journal of Impotence Research 33, no. 7 (2021): 694–702, https://doi.org/10.1038/s41443-020-00402-7.

[xxxvi] Lisa M. Diamond, Sexual Fluidity: Understanding Women’s Love and Desire (Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press, 2008).

[xxxvii] Diamond, 196.

[xxxviii] Diamond, 200.

[xxxix] Joanna Russ, Magic Mommas, Trembling Sisters, Puritans & Perverts: Feminist Essays, The Crossing Press Feminist Series (Trumansburg, NY: The Crossing Press, 1985), 79–97.

[xl] “FanFiction,” FanFiction.net, accessed September 29, 2022,

https://www.fanfiction.net/

.

[xli] Uli Meyer, “Hidden in Straight Sight: Trans*gressing Gender and Sexuality via BL,” in Boys’ Love Manga: Essays on the Sexual Ambiguity and Cross-Cultural Fandom of the Genre, ed. Antonia Levi, Mark McHarry, and Dru Pagliassotti (Jefferson, NC: McFarland & Company, 2008), 246.

[xlii] Miyuki Hashimoto, “Visual Kei Otaku Identity—An Intercultural Analysis,” Intercultural Communication Studies 16, no. 1 (2007): 92, https://www-s3-live.kent.edu/s3fs-root/s3fs-public/file/10-Miyuki-Hashimoto.pdf.

[xliii] Akiko Mizoguchi, “Theorizing Comics/Manga Genre as a Productive Forum: Yaoi and Beyond,” in Comics Worlds and the World of Comics: Towards Scholarship on a Global Scale, ed. Jaqueline Berndt, Global Manga Studies, vol. 1 (Kyoto: International Manga Research Center, Kyoto Seika University, 2010), 157.

[xliv] Mizoguchi, 159.

[xlv] Stefan Rowniak and Catherine Chesla, “Coming Out for a Third Time: Transmen, Sexual Orientation, and Identity,” Archives of Sexual Behavior 42, no. 3 (April 2013): 449–61, https://doi.org/10.1007/s10508-012-0036-2.

[xlvi] Eli Coleman, Walter O. Bockting, and Louis Gooren, “Homosexual and Bisexual Identity in Sex-Reassigned Female-to-Male Transsexuals,” Archives of Sexual Behavior 22, no. 1 (February 1993): 41–42, https://doi.org/10.1007/BF01552911; Bockting, Benner, and Coleman, “Gay and Bisexual Identity Development,” 694.

[xlvii] Bockting, Benner, and Coleman, “Gay and Bisexual Identity Development,” 694.

[xlviii] Raine Dozier, “Beards, Breasts, and Bodies: Doing Sex in a Gendered World,” Gender & Society 19, no. 3 (June 2005): 312, https://doi.org/10.1177/0891243204272153.

[xlix] Dozier, 312.

[l] Rowniak and Chesla, “Coming Out for a Third Time,” 457.

[li] Bockting, Benner, and Coleman, “Gay and Bisexual Identity Development,” 695.

[lii] Rowniak and Chesla, “Coming Out for a Third Time,” 455.